Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ junk fax - "SR Energy" 866-893-2365 - fax 800-806-2480 - rem. 866-584-8472, ever heard of "it's a fax"

[rickbpdq]

Got the attached junk fax today. Called, spoke with Shelly whose name is mentioned on the fax. She said they use a service called "It's a fax" (?) based in Alberta, Canada. Could this be an alias for Protus IP solutions? I explained that sending a junk fax without my written permission is a crime. She said to contact It's A Fax to discuss recovery from them. She refused to provide me with specific contact information for the company, saying she was not in her office.

I did a Google search for it's a fax and found sites www.itsafax.com which points to www.itsafax.ru, and the site appears to be down. Kudos to the Russian admins for shutting down these crooks. But the junk faxes apparently have not stopped.

Another member of this forum posted an identical removal number for a vacation package.

Idea: do you think that their fax-back number (800-806-2480) is handled by an actual, paper fax machine? If so, then sending a bunch of black pages would use up their toner and put an incredible amount of wear on the drum.

[Christine]

Great, you posted the fax - I just reduced it a little so it's more readable.

I also added their fax # so that it's found in web searches.

Unless you're rich, it's really pointless to go after the broadcasters like It's the fax. You may be able to put them out of business, but there are probably no assets. So the satisfaction of putting them out of business is all you get.

And no matter how many faxers you put out of business, for every one to be shut down, you'll have 2 new ones take their place. Junk faxing is extremely profitable.

Regarding It's the Fax, you probably saw my postings at Four Seasons Hotels

"Idea: do you think that their fax-back number (800-806-2480) is handled by an actual, paper fax machine? If so, then sending a bunch of black pages would use up their toner and put an incredible amount of wear on the drum."

How about you just sue them for the $500? Isn't $500 in your pocket better than *maybe* making them buy a new fax machine?

MOST LIKELY, they use computers anyway and you're just wasting your time.

*IF* Congress changes the law to allow junk faxes, I think that harassment calls and faxes to the faxers could be appropriate - BUT - harassment is illegal.

If you don't want to sue, you can of course just hang on to the fax and hope for a class action - it can be filed up to 4 years after they sent the fax and I'm not throwing anything away anymore.l

Here's a good example:

http://creditsuit.org/credit.php?/blog/com...ing_junk_faxes/

You can also file in small claims, and Steve Kirsch's http://junkfax.org/ is the junk fax litigant's bible.

I really hope to be able to get some plaintiffs to share expenses and research to make it more economical to sue. I'd also like to know what it takes to file a class action, of course every state has different rules, there's so much to learn.

[Christine]

"She said to contact It's A Fax to discuss recovery from them. She refused to provide me with specific contact information for the company, saying she was not in her office."

Forgot to mention, they KNOW that they're liable for the $500 minimum, so they don't want to give out info and make it easy to get sued.

It's a good idea to express interest in the product and try to get them to give a written estimate, proposal, etc.

I always ask for a web site and whether they're in the BBB - wouldn't want to do business with someone with complaints, etc.

Of course I never use my home phone # for a call back # and I know that they can get my number despite the caller ID blocking when I call a toll-free number.

I also don't provide the fax # they faxed to anymore. It takes a little time to get set up for these investigations and I'll post some more on that later.

[rickbpdq]

You're probably right about the fax back number being handled by a computer. And so you're right about sending black pages to be a waste of my time. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

Yesterday, when I posted the fax, I was confused about the identity of the junk faxer. I understood Shelly to say "It's A Fax" whereas the real name is "It's THE Fax." Which Christine has already located and contacted.

Something odd happened today. As I said in my original post, I spoke to Shelly yesterday but she refused to provide me with the contact information for the junk faxer ostensibly because she was not at her desk. Today, Shelly telephoned, saying that she had a message to call my number. Curious, I did not provide my voice number yesterday nor did I request a call back. No matter, I politely refreshed Shelly's memory that she and I spoke yesterday, and if she would please give me the number of her fax broadcaster.

She gave me the number 604-594-9836. After a quick Google search, I found that the correct name is It's THE Fax and their web site is www.itsthefax.com which appears to be up at the time of this writing.

I called It's The Fax and the phone was answered by Elizabeth. I asked where they got my fax number. Elizabeth said they have 250 different lists (probably a lie, but Elizabeth is probably a minimum-wage receptionist and doesn't know what's really going on). I requested to have my fax number removed. I also asked for my $500. Elizabeth said I should talk to her manager who was out to lunch.

I did not call back today because I had to take some family members to the airport. But I will try tomorrow. Based on Christine's reports, I'll probably be fed some line about being in Canada. But I like to think that our collective calls serve to remind these fools that virtually nobody wants to receive junk faxes.

I'll post more details as the events unfold.

How long have these It's A Fax fools been around? I haven't heard of them before.

[Christine]

I really don't know anything about It's the Fax, first time I saw the name was on the Four Seasons fax.

I don't even know if they do the faxing, they may well hire others as needed, I think Four Seasons did their own faxing - as per the header.

Hopefully Four Seasons will provide me with some documentation such as their contract and invoice for the fax #s they bought from It's the Fax.

The bottom line is that the ADVERTISERS are liable for the faxes and they can of course take legal action against the people who provided the numbers - if they choose to do so.

The million dollar question: WHO faxed your SR Energy fax?

You wrote: "No matter, I politely refreshed Shelly's memory that she and I spoke yesterday, and if she would please give me the number of her fax broadcaster."

There's a HUGE difference between selling #s and faxing. Many companies sell #s and that's perfectly legal. I have NO claim against It's the Fax.

If It's the Fax actually did the broadcasting for SR Energy, they're on the hook for up to $1,500 per fax.

BUT, I just posted today an FCC letter on their efforts against broadcaster 21st Century in England:

FCC in 4/04 on complaints, enforcement and offshore operations

(Sorry, I'm doing some redesign at the blog, not everything works as it should right now)

Since the FCC didn't mention SUCCESSFUL collection efforts, I suppose they didn't collect.

If the US Justice Department can't collect, how do we stand a chance?

But even in the US it's next to impossible to recover from the broadcasters. The FCC rarely collects any large fines from US faxers.

The fax broadcasters KNOW that they're engaging in illegal activities.

Other than the broadcasting and office equipment, they have no assets. The principals aren't idiots, the money is immediately moved offshore and into various corporations that can only be traced at the highest government level.

The only times a broadcaster might pay is if it's just a small amount and they want to stay in business.

I'll of course post any documentation I receive about It's the Fax and I should file my complaint with the FCC. But the only way to really hurt the broadcasters is to go after their advertisers.